Showing posts with label family tree. Show all posts
Showing posts with label family tree. Show all posts

Wednesday, 2 April 2025

Chinese regional linguistic variations

An ex-student doing a family tree has been picking whatever's left of my brain on anything to do with Chinese that crops up in her project, e.g., the pinyin romanisation for the characters of names provided by some relative for members on the family tree.

    One of the names she gave me had a mismatch between the character and the pinyin romanisation against it.

    After giving her the right pinyin, I explained why such "errors" (according to the rules of the adopted standard spelling system) occurred, as below:

    The Chinese do not think in terms of letters of the alphabet strung together (romanisation, in this case pinyin), but in ideograms (i.e., characters), so what might be obvious to the English-speaking mind (e.g., there’s a difference between z and zh, -n and -ng) won’t be to them.  

    This means that one will find someone with the surname 張 / spelling his own surname as Zang rather than Zhang.  People speaking with a Taiwan accent will say tīn for 听 tīng / listen.  And so on.  [Hence the "wrong" pinyin for the name she sent over.]

    To give you an idea of the linguistic challenges faced by outsiders (non-Taiwanese in the case of Taiwan, me specifically in 1975–6):

    In my initial days in Taipei, I was given some coins by my flatmate from Tainan 台南 (in the south, where they mainly speak the southern Chinese Minnan dialect) for making calls from the public phone box.  

    They were copper coins worth NT$.1, and had the image of a telephone set on one side and the words 電話專用 (diànhuà zhuān yòng / “telephone special use”) on the other.  

    I’d interpreted that to mean “need those coins for phone calls”, not the usual silver NT$.1 coins, which were the same size.  (It turned out to be: “these copper coins are phone tokens only, can’t use them to pay for shopping”, rather than “can make phone calls only with these copper coins, not other coins”, like the Italian gettone* telephone tokens which couldn’t be used for any other purpose.)

    When I ran out of the phone tokens, I asked my Tainan flatmate, “打電話的錢,怎麼換 / dǎ diànhuà de qián, zěnme huàn”, for where do I go to (ex)change NT$.1 coins for these special phone tokens?  

    She said, in Chinese, “Oh, you know those slots on the top of the telephone towards the back?  You just insert the coin into that slot.”  I didn’t understand what she was on about, so I repeated my question.  Got the same answer back.

    A few more attempts later, I discovered that southerners change [ha! word play] all “f” sounds to “h” (e.g., 吃飯 chi fan becomes chi huan), so she was saying huàn-jìn-qù for 放進去 fàng-jìn-qù / “release enter go” / put/insert [it] in.  After twigging, I said, “啊,你是說放進去 / ah, ni shi shuo fàng-jìn-qù / ah, you mean insert it?”  She nodded, “對對,huàn-jìn-qù, huàn-jìn-qù,” just doing an umbrella “h” for both 換 and 放, completely unable to hear the difference between my 換 huàn / to change and my 放 fàng / to release.

    A year later, we had a new draftsman (at Conoco Taiwan).  When he found out that I was from Singapore, he said to me, “ni fui bu fui shuo Zhongguo fua?”  Huh??  It turned out that he was from the Hakka 客家 kèjiā dialect group, who turn all “h” sounds to “f” (會不會 huì bu huì to fui bu fui and 中國話 Zhongguo huà to Zhongguo fua), so he was saying “Do you know how to speak Mandarin?”.  To convey the confusion-causing version from him, I've made up the English to be, "Do few know fow to speak Mandarin?"  

    I didn’t know until I met him that the Fujian/Minnan speakers did the f-to-h conversion whilst the Hakka speakers went the opposite direction.  So, unless you know beforehand which dialect group the speaker is from, your brain wouldn’t be ready to do the conversion.

    For someone fresh from Singapore who’d never been exposed to these regional variations, it was terribly confusing — I spent a lot of time trying to decode things said to me, which is fun in hindsight but was very much “Is my Mandarin THAT bad?!?!“ at the time.

    I have since discovered, in dribs and drabs over the years here in London, that, apart from the Fujian/Minnan and Hakka regional variations I was thrown into in Taiwan in 1975–6, there are more of these horrors out there (not in any order of importance / significance):

  • h/f and n/l:  People from the province of 湖南 Húnán will say they’re from Fúlán (I actually looked up the map of Fujian province one year, thinking Fúlán must be in Fujian as there is a Fúzhōu in Fujian, so the Fu in Fulan must be another Fujian town; took ages of trawling before it dawned on me)
  • -ng/-om ending:  People from 雲南 / 云南 / Yunnan province will say Kom fuzi for 孔夫子 Kǒng fūzi / Confucius; and chom for 蟲 / 虫 chóng / insect
  • n/l:  Cantonese speakers will say lei for nei (你 / nǐ / you)

    As an interpreter, I shudder to think how many more there are of such variations out there — as many as there are places, I imagine (big or small, provinces or even villages).  

    Talking about it here has just brought alive a memory from my childhood days:  we at home used to laugh at other Teochew (dialect) speakers for saying things differently from us (e.g., for “dark”, ang ang instead of am am), and that’s just the same Teochew dialect group alone!  

    Someone once told me that Norwegians are like that too.  Places that might be, say, only half a mile apart as the crow flies will have such different accents because they’re separated by fjords, so the distance between them is actually much much bigger:  to reach each other, they have to go all the way down to sea level, then all the way up again, so they’re really very far apart from each other, reflected in the huge linguistic differences.


* Gettone:  http://wisardcoin.altervista.org/Standard_Files/Articles/Gettone_ENG.PDF 


Wednesday, 2 October 2024

Whose responsibility is it? (Singapore)


An ex-student (American Chinese) has just been talking, not for the first time, about how misogynistic the Chinese culture / family can be, saying women are invisible entities, not being included in family trees.  (I'm giving only a summary here, as she feels very strongly about it and has lots to say on the subject.)


My reply to her:  Quote 家、族 [jiāpǔ, zúpǔ / “family/clan trees”] are compiled by men indeed, but I blame the women, too, for they're the ones who also have a hand in bringing up the male children and grandchildren.  Two examples spring to mind from my own experience.  This conversation with you has inspired a blog, so will go draft it, then share it with you. Unquote


My mother’s younger brother (of two) lived with us in the suburbs of Singapore as he worked downtown, whilst my grandmother had a coconut plantation out in the sticks which would require about three, if not four or more, bus changes, never mind a few hours’ travelling time each way, even in the days of the relatively uncluttered roads of the early 60s.


This uncle carried on living with us after he got married (and had two daughters under our roof before he moved out into a house of his own).  Being a modern free-love (vs arranged marriage) man, he was liberal in his ways, which included helping his wife with their own laundry — done by hand in those days.


One day, my maternal grandma, dropping in on us en route to the Buddhist temple she frequented, walked in on my uncle helping his wife wring out the clothes and hang them up.  She was appalled, and said to him openly, “How can you do that?  That’s a woman’s work!”


I was only about nine at the time, but even then, I was shocked that my grandma, a woman herself, should’ve told her son off for helping his wife out in what she called “woman’s work”.  


In the late 60s, I was privy to another episode of a mother not doing the right thing in bringing up her male child.  


The whole family was having dinner.  My brother, the first to finish, got up and was about to leave the table. 

 

In my family, we were taught to take our empty dishes to the kitchen sink, which was only about four feet away from the dining table.  We had a domestic help (we called them “servants” in those days without any particular bias, but a lot of British friends objected to the term), but we were brought up to treat them well, so we’d help out as much as we could, e.g., taking our empties over to the sink instead of leaving it all to her.


As my brother took a step away, my second sister (older than my brother by two years) called out, “Dave, take your empty dishes to the sink.”  He stopped because my sister had called out his name, took a look at his empty dishes, then chose to ignore what she said and started to walk away.  


My sister insisted, “Dave, did you hear what I said?  Take your dishes over to the sink.”  This time, he didn’t dare disregard her authority over him as his older sibling.  He came back, and took the empty dishes over to the sink as told.  


All this time, throughout the two exchanges, not a single sound was heard from my mother, not even some kind of “yes, that’s right, listen to your older sister” in support.


I often blame the mothers for bad behaviour in men.  Can I be blamed for that?  


(I also give credit to mothers for good behaviour.  I've found myself saying to young people who give up their seats or help old people on/off the bus: "Compliments to your mother.  She's brought you up well."  Some people might find this )


(The outcome of my second sister’s disciplining my brother:  he always took his dishes over to the sink after that.)


Fast forward to the late 80s, when my mother’s younger sister died of breast cancer.  The beneficiaries of her will were:  my mother, her two younger brothers, and my brother.  So, she’d skipped one generation and included my brother, her nephew, but she’d also skipped the four of us girls in the same generation.  This is a woman being sexist towards members of her own sex.


(Singapore, 1960s)


PS:  Thanks to Li Hsia for prompting this long overdue social comment, albeit only based on my own experience.