Showing posts with label Hakka. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Hakka. Show all posts

Wednesday, 2 April 2025

Chinese regional linguistic variations

An ex-student doing a family tree has been picking whatever's left of my brain on anything to do with Chinese that crops up in her project, e.g., the pinyin romanisation for the characters of names provided by some relative for members on the family tree.

    One of the names she gave me had a mismatch between the character and the pinyin romanisation against it.

    After giving her the right pinyin, I explained why such "errors" (according to the rules of the adopted standard spelling system) occurred, as below:

    The Chinese do not think in terms of letters of the alphabet strung together (romanisation, in this case pinyin), but in ideograms (i.e., characters), so what might be obvious to the English-speaking mind (e.g., there’s a difference between z and zh, -n and -ng) won’t be to them.  

    This means that one will find someone with the surname 張 / spelling his own surname as Zang rather than Zhang.  People speaking with a Taiwan accent will say tīn for 听 tīng / listen.  And so on.  [Hence the "wrong" pinyin for the name she sent over.]

    To give you an idea of the linguistic challenges faced by outsiders (non-Taiwanese in the case of Taiwan, me specifically in 1975–6):

    In my initial days in Taipei, I was given some coins by my flatmate from Tainan 台南 (in the south, where they mainly speak the southern Chinese Minnan dialect) for making calls from the public phone box.  

    They were copper coins worth NT$.1, and had the image of a telephone set on one side and the words 電話專用 (diànhuà zhuān yòng / “telephone special use”) on the other.  

    I’d interpreted that to mean “need those coins for phone calls”, not the usual silver NT$.1 coins, which were the same size.  (It turned out to be: “these copper coins are phone tokens only, can’t use them to pay for shopping”, rather than “can make phone calls only with these copper coins, not other coins”, like the Italian gettone* telephone tokens which couldn’t be used for any other purpose.)

    When I ran out of the phone tokens, I asked my Tainan flatmate, “打電話的錢,怎麼換 / dǎ diànhuà de qián, zěnme huàn”, for where do I go to (ex)change NT$.1 coins for these special phone tokens?  

    She said, in Chinese, “Oh, you know those slots on the top of the telephone towards the back?  You just insert the coin into that slot.”  I didn’t understand what she was on about, so I repeated my question.  Got the same answer back.

    A few more attempts later, I discovered that southerners change [ha! word play] all “f” sounds to “h” (e.g., 吃飯 chi fan becomes chi huan), so she was saying huàn-jìn-qù for 放進去 fàng-jìn-qù / “release enter go” / put/insert [it] in.  After twigging, I said, “啊,你是說放進去 / ah, ni shi shuo fàng-jìn-qù / ah, you mean insert it?”  She nodded, “對對,huàn-jìn-qù, huàn-jìn-qù,” just doing an umbrella “h” for both 換 and 放, completely unable to hear the difference between my 換 huàn / to change and my 放 fàng / to release.

    A year later, we had a new draftsman (at Conoco Taiwan).  When he found out that I was from Singapore, he said to me, “ni fui bu fui shuo Zhongguo fua?”  Huh??  It turned out that he was from the Hakka 客家 kèjiā dialect group, who turn all “h” sounds to “f” (會不會 huì bu huì to fui bu fui and 中國話 Zhongguo huà to Zhongguo fua), so he was saying “Do you know how to speak Mandarin?”.  To convey the confusion-causing version from him, I've made up the English to be, "Do few know fow to speak Mandarin?"  

    I didn’t know until I met him that the Fujian/Minnan speakers did the f-to-h conversion whilst the Hakka speakers went the opposite direction.  So, unless you know beforehand which dialect group the speaker is from, your brain wouldn’t be ready to do the conversion.

    For someone fresh from Singapore who’d never been exposed to these regional variations, it was terribly confusing — I spent a lot of time trying to decode things said to me, which is fun in hindsight but was very much “Is my Mandarin THAT bad?!?!“ at the time.

    I have since discovered, in dribs and drabs over the years here in London, that, apart from the Fujian/Minnan and Hakka regional variations I was thrown into in Taiwan in 1975–6, there are more of these horrors out there (not in any order of importance / significance):

  • h/f and n/l:  People from the province of 湖南 Húnán will say they’re from Fúlán (I actually looked up the map of Fujian province one year, thinking Fúlán must be in Fujian as there is a Fúzhōu in Fujian, so the Fu in Fulan must be another Fujian town; took ages of trawling before it dawned on me)
  • -ng/-om ending:  People from 雲南 / 云南 / Yunnan province will say Kom fuzi for 孔夫子 Kǒng fūzi / Confucius; and chom for 蟲 / 虫 chóng / insect
  • n/l:  Cantonese speakers will say lei for nei (你 / nǐ / you)

    As an interpreter, I shudder to think how many more there are of such variations out there — as many as there are places, I imagine (big or small, provinces or even villages).  

    Talking about it here has just brought alive a memory from my childhood days:  we at home used to laugh at other Teochew (dialect) speakers for saying things differently from us (e.g., for “dark”, ang ang instead of am am), and that’s just the same Teochew dialect group alone!  

    Someone once told me that Norwegians are like that too.  Places that might be, say, only half a mile apart as the crow flies will have such different accents because they’re separated by fjords, so the distance between them is actually much much bigger:  to reach each other, they have to go all the way down to sea level, then all the way up again, so they’re really very far apart from each other, reflected in the huge linguistic differences.


* Gettone:  http://wisardcoin.altervista.org/Standard_Files/Articles/Gettone_ENG.PDF 


Saturday, 18 November 2017

Sibling rivalry (Worldwide)


Growing up in Singapore as a child from the Teochew (Cháozhōu 潮州, S.E.China) dialect group, I’d hear derogatory / pejorative remarks made about other dialect groups.  

The Cantonese (S.E.China) put too much oil and salt in their cooking.  

The Hokkiens (from Fújiàn 福建 Province, S.E.China) are uncouth — they apparently have the biggest range and the most vulgar of swear words and phrases, so vulgar I didn’t dare listen, never mind repeat.  

The Hainanese (from Hainan Island, S.E.China) were called “white stomach”, which is a kind of sea fish: it has a white underbelly and floats in the water upside down, white underbelly facing up, thus making it very easy for fishermen to spot and catch them, hence stupid.  

Similarly, there were jokes / comments about the Malays and the Indians.

When I went to work in Taipei, I heard similarly critical comments about three regions (there must be others):  people from Anhui Province (further north of S.E.China, inland westwards from Shanghai) are fierce;  people from Sichuan Province (S.W.China) and Hunan Province (central China) are fiery (because of the hot food they consume) and can outdo anyone in a row.

Coming to London, I came across jokes about (and labels for) the Irish and the Scots, sometimes about northern English people.

When I started going out with a Swiss man, I heard that the Swiss have jokes about the Austrians, and the French have jokes about the Belgians.

It then dawned on me that it’s geographical proximity (and therefore familiarity) that decides who the targets of disparagement would be.  

The Chinese community in Singapore in the 1960s consisted mainly of Hokkiens (the biggest group at the time), the Cantonese, the Teochews, the Hainanese and the Hakkas.  It’s not a coincidence, I think, that they’re all from S.E.China.  There were no derogatory remarks about people from Anhui, Sichuan or Hunan, because we didn’t have them in Singapore at the time.

Ditto the English jokes/comments about the Irish and the Scots.  Ditto the Swiss and French ones.  They’re all neighbours, or close enough.  I have a feeling there’ll be Scandinavian ones about each other. 

I call this “sibling rivalry”.  

It can also be applied to people from the same sex:  in my experience, women tend to be more competitive with (and often, catty about) other women, and men with men, rather than across the sexual divide.

An example from my personal experience: when I started my relationship with the Swiss man, I told a good friend, Bernhard, about it, adding, “And he’s a German speaker, too!”  Bernhard, who’s German, said, “That’s what he thinks.”

Update 271117:  An ex-student
s father, whos from Tianjin, China, said last night when I told him the Hainanese story: "People in mainland China think people from Hainan are very clever."  Proves my Sibling Rivalry theory, I think  Tianjin in north China is much further from Hainan Island in the south-east, therefore no bitching...